| time | login | message |
|---|
| 07-08-19 10:13 | Flankk | geniice ah, toll roads. Many toll roads in Canada are not even paid off from toll funding nevermind the constant cost of maintainance on the roads. |
| 07-08-19 10:13 | geniice | uk has the M6 Toll |
| 07-08-19 10:14 | geniice | and various toll bridges but those are a seperate issue |
| 07-08-19 10:15 | Flankk | geniice roads and pipelines are especially interesting in the argument of government systems. Do you think roadways/pipelines would work in the free market? |
| 07-08-19 10:15 | geniice | you would argue that the [[Gloucester and Sharpness Canal]] couldn't exist because it competes with the free river severn. However the strech of the river severn it competes with is a nightmare to navigate |
| 07-08-19 10:16 | geniice | Flankk we tried a freemark communication system in the UK a few times |
| 07-08-19 10:16 | geniice | Flankk didn't work out |
| 07-08-19 10:16 | Flankk | geniice what do you mean by "communication system"? Morse code? |
| 07-08-19 10:16 | geniice | Flankk roads canals railways |
| 07-08-19 10:16 | Grigorious | http//www.efukt.com/1865_Devirginized_By_Screwdriver.html <--- this is a fun and entertaining video |
| 07-08-19 10:16 | geniice | canals mostly lost money |
| 07-08-19 10:17 | geniice | turnpikes ended up being goverment run |
| 07-08-19 10:17 | SNORLAX | problem with transportation is eminent domain |
| 07-08-19 10:18 | geniice | local roads almost have to be goverment run otherwise you get property access issues |
| 07-08-19 10:18 | geniice | SNORLAX not allways. There were canals built in the UK where the landowner owned enough land not to have to worry about that |
| 07-08-19 10:18 | Flankk | geniice once again I think the branches of government are entirely distinct and should be run differently. If roads and pipelines are built using socialism, I think capitalist busses/trains/telephone providers will work great. |
| 07-08-19 10:18 | SNORLAX | either you have eminent domain, which introduces government, or you don't, which makes property costs ridiculous for anything that goes anywhere useful |
| 07-08-19 10:19 | geniice | Flankk capitalist busses/trains shouldn't really exist outside very large cities |
| 07-08-19 10:19 | SNORLAX | Flankk, but who operates the rail line (signals etc)? |
| 07-08-19 10:20 | Flankk | SNORLAX that would be the government that builds roads and rail lines in the socialist system. All transport could be capitalist, however. |
| 07-08-19 10:20 | geniice | telephone infrastucture can be run private but needs to be under heavy regulation due to strategic significance |
| 07-08-19 10:20 | geniice | Flankk nyet trains tend to run at a loss |
| 07-08-19 10:20 | geniice | Flankk busses outside cities tend to run at a loss |
| 07-08-19 10:20 | SNORLAX | then you again introduce government interference; the government could choose to give passenger trains priority, or freight trains |
| 07-08-19 10:21 | bumm13 | geniice funny how U.S. telephone companies are hardly "heavy regulated" |
| 07-08-19 10:21 | Flankk | geniice perhaps there's no need for busses outside cities then? |
| 07-08-19 10:21 | geniice | bumm13 bell telephone monopoly |
| 07-08-19 10:21 | SNORLAX | free public roads are built at a loss |
| 07-08-19 10:21 | Flankk | SNORLAX okay, that's a valid argument. But do you think rail lines should be free market then? |
| 07-08-19 10:21 | rvalles | Flankk buses aren't significant. Rice is, specially its DNA. |
| 07-08-19 10:21 | SNORLAX | if it's a choice between building more roads at a loss or running transit at a loss... |
| 07-08-19 10:21 | bumm13 | geniice most of the post-1984 RBOCs have recombined in some way |
| 07-08-19 10:22 | geniice | Flankk they were |
| 07-08-19 10:22 | Flankk | rvalles get out, troll. |
| 07-08-19 10:22 | rvalles | Flankk hey, that's mean. |
| 07-08-19 10:22 | bumm13 | calm down, geez |
| 07-08-19 10:22 | SNORLAX | freight rail seems to work reasonably well in the free market |
| 07-08-19 10:22 | rvalles | Flankk just wanted to say hi ) |
| 07-08-19 10:22 | SNORLAX | problem is that passenger trains use the same tracks |
| 07-08-19 10:22 | geniice | bumm13 no what I meant was the need for goverment regulation was reduced by the existance of the bell telephone monopoly. Bell had to make the system work or else |
| 07-08-19 10:23 | Flankk | ACTION watches rvalles try to derail another fruitful argument |
| 07-08-19 10:23 | SNORLAX | derail |
| 07-08-19 10:23 | SNORLAX | GET IT?!?!? |
| 07-08-19 10:23 | Flankk | SNORLAX hehe |
| 07-08-19 10:23 | geniice | freight rail makes sense only under limited conditions |
| 07-08-19 10:23 | geniice | Road haulage tends to do better in a free market |
| 07-08-19 10:23 | SNORLAX | freight rail is more fuel efficient than trucks for long distances |
| 07-08-19 10:24 | geniice | SNORLAX fuel is only one cost |
| 07-08-19 10:24 | SNORLAX | what else, maintenance? |
| 07-08-19 10:24 | geniice | SNORLAX and you lose flexibilty. Hard to do JIT ordering with rail |
| 07-08-19 10:24 | SNORLAX | that exists for both |
| 07-08-19 10:24 | SNORLAX | JIT can be a premium service |
| 07-08-19 10:24 | Flankk | SNORLAX so what should be the standard to judge what is capitalist and what is socialist? Whichever is deemed to work better in that environment? |
| 07-08-19 10:24 | SNORLAX | I have no idea |
| 07-08-19 10:25 | geniice | SNORLAX signaling paying for a greater percentage of maintenance |
| 07-08-19 10:25 | SNORLAX | not everyone has all the answers |
| 07-08-19 10:25 | SNORLAX | geniice, that's only because the government subsidizes trucks |
| 07-08-19 10:25 | SNORLAX | trucks do a shitload of damage to roads compared to cars |
| 07-08-19 10:25 | geniice | SNORLAX JIT is considered standard in most modern business models |
| 07-08-19 10:25 | geniice | SNORLAX and pay higher road tax as a reault |
| 07-08-19 10:25 | kmccoylogger | ... and they pay for it. |
| 07-08-19 10:25 | SNORLAX | yeah not high enough |
| 07-08-19 10:26 | geniice | rail makes sense for shipping bult raw materials from seaports and the likr |
| 07-08-19 10:26 | geniice | bulk raw materials |
| 07-08-19 10:26 | geniice | where you can't do JIT ordering anyway |
| 07-08-19 10:26 | kmccoylogger | The passenger movement system in the US is awful, but our freight system is a fantastic combination of rail, road, air, and sea. |
| 07-08-19 10:27 | kmccoylogger | It's not an all or nothing game. The best answer is going to be a mix. |
| 07-08-19 10:27 | geniice | people are tricky to move |
| 07-08-19 10:27 | geniice | kmccoylogger mix would be what the UK does |
| 07-08-19 10:27 | geniice | and distances in the US make moveing people hard |
| 07-08-19 10:27 | SNORLAX | distances in the us are like distances in mainland europe |
| 07-08-19 10:28 | Flankk | Okay, let me throw this out there. Let's assume the roads are built using a socialist system, and the government pays free market business to clear and maintain roads. Who's to say the government can't pay free market to build the roads as well? |
| 07-08-19 10:28 | kmccoylogger | Right, I'm saying that the mix of freight systems we have in the US is good. Not the passenger systems. |
| 07-08-19 10:28 | geniice | because you have to provide services to passengers in transit |
| 07-08-19 10:29 | maelstrom | who speak spanish in here. |
| 07-08-19 10:29 | geniice | try #wikipedia-es |
| 07-08-19 10:29 | SNORLAX | not if there's a transfer point along the way where you can exit to eat and shit |
| 07-08-19 10:29 | geniice | SNORLAX great so you have to stop the train |
| 07-08-19 10:29 | kmccoylogger | maelstrom, I speak it at a very basic level. #wikipedia-es is probably your best bet. |
| 07-08-19 10:29 | Flankk | SNORLAX any thoughts? |
| 07-08-19 10:30 | SNORLAX | Flankk, eminent domain |
| 07-08-19 10:30 | geniice | you have to sort out entering and leaving the train and getting everyone back onto the train before you leave |
| 07-08-19 10:30 | SNORLAX | also the right to travel or whatever it's called |
| 07-08-19 10:31 | geniice | Rolle Canal didn't require eminent domain |
| 07-08-19 10:31 | SNORLAX | it was an exception |
| 07-08-19 10:32 | SNORLAX | it's also 6 miles |
| 07-08-19 10:32 | geniice | and it also cheated |
| 07-08-19 10:32 | geniice | there was a court case because it went across common land |
| 07-08-19 10:33 | Flankk | SNORLAX okay so take that concept and apply it to health care. |
| 07-08-19 10:33 | SNORLAX | I don't give a shit about health care |
| 07-08-19 10:33 | SNORLAX | maybe I should but I don't |
| 07-08-19 10:33 | Flankk | SNORLAX perhaps because you're healthy? |
| 07-08-19 10:34 | SNORLAX | good one |
| 07-08-19 10:34 | SNORLAX | I'm a fat pokemon |
| 07-08-19 10:34 | Luna-San | I've never heard of a Snorlax getting sick. |
| 07-08-19 10:34 | SNORLAX | I bet there's a disease pokemon that can infect it |
| 07-08-19 10:34 | geniice | health care is fairly trivial you have a goverment sevice that pretty much does the job and a private one with extra frills |
| 07-08-19 10:35 | Flankk | Anyhow, that was the longest political discussion I've ever seen without it devolving into a shitstorm. Kudos you guys, really. |
| 07-08-19 10:37 | SNORLAX | here's some fanfic with a sick snorlax http//www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22sick+snorlax&btnG=Google+Search |
| 07-08-19 10:37 | Luna-San | Non-canon. Delete. |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Luna-San | <.< |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:38 | Grigorious | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:39 | SNORLAX | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:39 | SNORLAX | hi |
| 07-08-19 10:39 | seanw | Grigorious, when you fix your client, let us know and we will unquiet ) |
| 07-08-19 10:39 | Flankk | See, once again could've kicked as a warning first. |
| 07-08-19 10:40 | geniice | nah that guy is a troll |
| 07-08-19 10:40 | geniice | oh yuck look at the licsense terms on |
| 07-08-19 10:40 | geniice | health care |
| 07-08-19 10:40 | geniice | http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ImageTh07ran01.png |
| 07-08-19 10:40 | geniice | rather |
| 07-08-19 10:41 | Luna-San | Flankk Not the first time they've done that sort of thing, nor the first channel. |
| 07-08-19 10:42 | Flankk | Luna-San okay sorry, I won't doubt your powers. |
| 07-08-19 10:43 | Luna-San | Doubt all you like; my only concern is whether your doubts are valid. |
| 07-08-19 10:43 | Luna-San | Well, not entirely true. I'd like to keep everyone happy, generally. |
| 07-08-19 10:46 | Flankk | "[Grigorious(n=Grigory@ip70-181-124-111.oc.oc.cox.net)] listen come away with me bb and start ur troll career |
| 07-08-19 10:46 | Flankk | LOL |
| 07-08-19 10:46 | Flankk | Luna-San you were right, 'nuff said. |
| 07-08-19 10:48 | Luna-San | I try to be. Though I know I've had my share of screw-ups. p |
| 07-08-19 10:48 | Luna-San | Anyhow. I should go sleep. Bed. Mmf. |
| 07-08-19 10:50 | Fabexplosive | ACTION back |
| 07-08-19 11:05 | chrisgrant | Hello |
| 07-08-19 11:05 | Flankk | sup |
| 07-08-19 11:06 | chrisgrant | I've got homework! |
| 07-08-19 11:06 | chrisgrant | not good |
| 07-08-19 11:06 | Flankk | That's never fun. |
| 07-08-19 11:06 | chrisgrant | just some research |
| 07-08-19 11:06 | chrisgrant | so its ok |
| 07-08-19 11:06 | mebyz | hi |
| 07-08-19 11:06 | Flankk | ahh, so you come here. ;) |
| 07-08-19 11:10 | geniice | dis is going to be problematical |
| 07-08-19 11:10 | geniice | http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WikipediaAdministrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Perverted_Justice |
| 07-08-19 11:10 | maelstrom | so... why don't they give miners an emergency box with walkie talkies and food and stuff ? |
| 07-08-19 11:10 | SNORLAX | pedophily |
| 07-08-19 11:11 | geniice | maelstrom walkie talkies are not going to work through several hundread meters of rock |
| 07-08-19 11:12 | geniice | SNORLAX an attack site we have an article on. Lovely |
| 07-08-19 11:12 | SNORLAX | yeah I saw the drama |
| 07-08-19 11:13 | geniice | ongoing |
| 07-08-19 11:13 | Flankk | geniice huh, that's an interesting site though. Sting operations make for interesting conversation. |
| 07-08-19 11:14 | geniice | listing wikipedia as a coperate sex offender on the other hand |
| 07-08-19 11:14 | Flankk | geniice oh well, opinion doesn't belong in an encyclopedia but an entry about that site, perhaps. |
| 07-08-19 11:16 | Flankk | geniice not stating that WP being a corporate entity housing sex offenders is opionion, but rather that they endorse it. |
| 07-08-19 11:18 | Flankk | geniice do you think sting operations are a good thing, or no? |
| 07-08-19 11:19 | geniice | I do not aprove of vigalanteeism |
| 07-08-19 11:20 | Flankk | geniice okay, what about police sting operations? |
| 07-08-19 11:20 | geniice | problem pages include |
| 07-08-19 11:20 | geniice | http//www.corporatesexoffenders.com/wiki/Wikipedia_Campaign |
| 07-08-19 11:21 | geniice | Flankk depends on the coniditions under which they are conducted |
| 07-08-19 11:21 | geniice | Flankk as long as there is no entrapment fine |
| 07-08-19 11:21 | Flankk | geniice yeah, sting operations generally involve entrapment. It's kind of a grey area for me where I'm completely undecided. |
| 07-08-19 11:21 | geniice | not at all |
| 07-08-19 11:22 | geniice | Police set up a second hand shop |
| 07-08-19 11:22 | geniice | arrest anyone who trys to sell them stolen goods |
| 07-08-19 11:22 | geniice | classic sting operation |
| 07-08-19 11:22 | Flankk | that's entrapment... |
| 07-08-19 11:23 | geniice | no |
| 07-08-19 11:23 | geniice | Criminal did not have to offer the item for sale |
| 07-08-19 11:24 | Flankk | I see the distinction but I'd still consider that entrapment. |
| 07-08-19 11:24 | geniice | criminal didn't have to go near the shop |
| 07-08-19 11:24 | geniice | criminal chose to take the item to a shop that should have reported them to the police in any case |
| 07-08-19 11:24 | maelstrom | so there's 181 miners trapped in a mine in china, and we have to hear every minor progression in the saga of SIX missingminers in utah ? |
| 07-08-19 11:25 | Flankk | geniice and what if they purchased it from a friend, didn't know it was just stolen? What if it wasn't stolen and they're up for unlawful arrest? Entrapment. |
| 07-08-19 11:26 | geniice | Flankk in the first case that is for the courts to decide |
| 07-08-19 11:26 | geniice | in the second they have a list of known stolen goods |
| 07-08-19 11:26 | Flankk | geniice they're still setting up shop with the sole motivation of trapping criminals. That's precisely what entrapment is. |
| 07-08-19 11:27 | geniice | Flankk the police did have to deal with people bringing in non stolen goods. generaly tried to diswade such people from selling but did purchases when no other option. Didn't arest them |
| 07-08-19 11:27 | Flankk | geniice okay, so if a private organization does this, would you then consider it entrapment? |
| 07-08-19 11:27 | geniice | no |
| 07-08-19 11:27 | Flankk | Wow. |
| 07-08-19 11:27 | geniice | lots do |
| 07-08-19 11:28 | geniice | you can't legaly run a second hand shop without doing something simular |
| 07-08-19 11:28 | Flankk | You said earlier you don't endorse vigilantism... |
| 07-08-19 11:28 | geniice | I don't |
| 07-08-19 11:28 | geniice | but if you are running a second had shop and don't report stolen goods to the police you are going to be in trouble fast |
| 07-08-19 11:30 | Flankk | there's a difference between running a sally ann and running a pawn shop to attract criminals. The latter, IMO is still entrapment because it's a (more subtle) means of attracting criminals. |
| 07-08-19 11:30 | geniice | running a pawn shop to attract criminals is illegal under various laws to do with handeling stolen goods |
| 07-08-19 11:31 | Flankk | geniice okay, and if it's a police operation? |
| 07-08-19 11:31 | geniice | the police are allowed to handel stolen goods in the course of their duties |
| 07-08-19 11:32 | Flankk | So a police-run pawn shop run in the ghetto still isn't entrapment? |
| 07-08-19 11:32 | geniice | nope |
| 07-08-19 11:33 | geniice | no pressure is being put on people to break the law |
| 07-08-19 11:33 | Flankk | I disagree. You fail to draw the line between enforcing the law and using enticement to attract criminals into a sting operation; which is by definition, entrapment. |
| 07-08-19 11:35 | geniice | That is like argueing that because police statations contian things people would like to steal they are a form of entrapment |
| 07-08-19 11:35 | Flankk | I would consider a pawn shop in a high-crime area to be enticement. |
| 07-08-19 11:35 | geniice | Not really |
| 07-08-19 11:36 | geniice | The criminal know that he is takeing the risk that the owner is going to report them to the police |
| 07-08-19 11:36 | Flankk | Really? I find that even bolder of a claim. You don't think criminals are inclined to go to a pawn shop instead of a sally ann with their stolen goods? Wow. |
| 07-08-19 11:36 | geniice | They know there is a risk |
| 07-08-19 11:37 | Flankk | So do pedos when they are chatting online. And you'd consider that entrapment. |
| 07-08-19 11:37 | geniice | if you are a pawn shop in a high crime area police are going to check up from time to time |
| 07-08-19 11:37 | geniice | Flankk only sometimes |
| 07-08-19 11:38 | geniice | Flankk "I'm a 14 year old girl" is fine "I'm a 14 year old girl looking for sex" is not |
